Curse

Coolquest · Mar 11, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Is it just me or has half of the tactic skills been completely nerfed to hell?
I understand it was to counter out some of the skills being spammed by paragons, but c'mon guys, was this really the ONLY option? Couldn't you have made it so it was only effective at higher levels, or maybe even switch the skills attribute?

Example:

Shield stance
- used to last like 16 seconds with a 32 second recharge or so.

- now lasts 5 seconds, 15 sec recharge.
Oh well, I guess I can use it to cover healing signet now! NVM, I'll just use lions comfort.

Defensive stance
- used to last like 16 seconds with a 32 second recharge, ended if any skills (or was it attack only?) skills were used.

Fear me!
-Used to steal energy with no recharge.

-Now its a 6 second recharge, cuz we all know THREE ENERGY is really gonna break the energy storage bank on any caster! Especially if you give it enough cool down so those poor casters can recharge what they've lost by the time you can use it again!

Watch Yourself!
-Used to give a set armor bonus for its duration

-Now only blocks THREE attacks, because we all know warriors lose their energy and need to go eat more doughnuts when they swing that weapon a couple times! And ALSO they added a handy 4 second recharge!

This doesn't effect me drastically, but I fail to see how tactics is useful at all now in PVP, sure there is still the occasional gem such as Victory is Mine and Charge! but being realistic, neither are going to be all that great in PVP, and its stupid to sacrifice 10-12 percent armor penetration per hit for just ONE skill.

Artorius.Maximus · Mar 11, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Don't forget the popular loss of the tactics health bonus on lions comfort now too. Definitely agree that this attribute got screwed on that nerf.

NamelessBeauty · Mar 11, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Shhh, Mo/W with balance stance is awesome? Shield up is uber?

But you are right! Tactics sux now lol!

shru · Mar 11, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

Fear me!
-Used to steal energy with no recharge.

-Now its a 6 second recharge, cuz we all know THREE ENERGY is really gonna break the energy storage bank on any caster! Especially if you give it enough cool down so those poor casters can recharge what they've lost by the time you can use it again!

Watch Yourself!
-Used to give a set armor bonus for its duration

-Now only blocks THREE attacks, because we all know warriors lose their energy and need to go eat more doughnuts when they swing that weapon a couple times! And ALSO they added a handy 4 second recharge!

This doesn't effect me drastically, but I fail to see how tactics is useful at all now in PVP, sure there is still the occasional gem such as Victory is Mine and Charge! but being realistic, neither are going to be all that great in PVP, and its stupid to sacrifice 10-12 percent armor penetration per hit for just ONE skill.

Have you taken a look at HA/GvG at all since nightfall's release? You'd understand why if you knew what I'm talking about.

MisterT69 · Mar 11, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

Have you taken a look at HA/GvG at all since nightfall's release? You'd understand why if you knew what I'm talking about.

Which is why we need to separate the skills into PVE & PVE sets. Ex: SoR in PVE has 5 sec recharge, 5 nrg cost, 1 sec cast, heals 62...102 health. PVP: SoR 10 nrg cost, 20 sec recharge, heals 70...110. Besides, more people PVE than PVP, so why should PVE chars have to suffer? Personally, I prefer DoA, UW, and FoW runs compared to HA. It's just so much more fun

Coolquest · Mar 11, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

Have you taken a look at HA/GvG at all since nightfall's release? You'd understand why if you knew what I'm talking about.

So, destroy an entire attribute set to balance out one aspect? I think there is a different way we could correct an unbalance in the force!

the kurzick eater · Mar 11, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

these nerfs weren't linked to warriors 90% of the time:

fear me--- nerfed for IWay (crazy edenial)
watch yourself--- nerfed energy management for paras (free 4 energy every few seconds)

i almost agree on making skills separate from pve to pvp, but that would be extremely unrealistic. (i prefer killing real people's lil gw dudes myself

)

Coolquest · Mar 11, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by the kurzick eater

these nerfs weren't linked to warriors 90% of the time:

fear me--- nerfed for IWay (crazy edenial)
watch yourself--- nerfed energy management for paras (free 4 energy every few seconds)
stances--- nerfed because of monks abusing them (hmm 16 seconds of blocking, yay!)

i almost agree on making skills separate from pve to pvp, but that would be extremely unrealistic. (i prefer killing real people's lil gw dudes myself

)

Okay, so why couldn't shield stance only effect warriors, and watch yourself and fear me only effect warriors?

jonnieboi05 · Mar 11, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

Okay, so why couldn't shield stance only effect warriors, and watch yourself and fear me only effect warriors?

umm..... need i say anything to this comment?

Artorius.Maximus · Mar 11, 2008, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

Okay, so why couldn't shield stance only effect warriors, and watch yourself and fear me only effect warriors?

Um, that would be like requesting the removal of second professions from the game.

Examples: Why couldn't mending or healing hands only affect monks?
Why couldn't grenth's balance only affect necros?
Why couldn't Glyph of Lesser Energy only affect eles?

Stormlord Alex · Mar 11, 2008, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by the kurzick eater

stances--- nerfed because of monks abusing them (hmm 16 seconds of blocking, yay!)

Stances were buffed.

Snow Bunny · Mar 12, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

snip

If you know nothing about PvP, please don't talk about it.

Your entire post was void in the fact that Paragons had infinite energy, and "Fear Me" on warriors with an IAS and speed buffs was dreadful to monk against.

HawkofStorms · Mar 12, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolquest

So, destroy an entire attribute set to balance out one aspect? I think there is a different way we could correct an unbalance in the force!

So the correct answer to Shru's question is no...

Leave skill balance suggestions to Izzy and those who actually play both sides of the game.

Coolquest · Mar 12, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artorius.Maximus

Um, that would be like requesting the removal of second professions from the game.

It just seems to me, if you're going to nerf a skill so badly its going to be useless past level 10, wouldn't you be better off removing it anyways since theres no practical use for it? Its like saying "Heres 20 dollars , you can spend it on whatever you want, oh yeah but 18 of it is fake."

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

So the correct answer to Shru's question is no...

Leave skill balance suggestions to Izzy and those who actually play both sides of the game.

KK, you're right, and this is also a motivator for me to maybe get into some PVP stuff. Either way though this thread would have been started eventually.

Edit:
I just got an idea, how about making it so paragons only get energy bonuses from paragon shouts and shouts from other people, this would correct the issue.

warcrap · Mar 12, 2008, 01:32 AM // 01:32

hey elementalist been nerfed way worse quit whining!

Coolquest · Mar 12, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by warcrap

hey elementalist been nerfed way worse quit whining!

Yeah but elementalists are also one of the big farmers right now too. You're point is?

Winterclaw · Mar 12, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

The problem with tactics is that it was a bit overpowered when used with some non-warrior primaries. Thus it had to be nerfed so much that no one would want to use it. I'd like for anet to improve it, and have offered some skill suggestions. However until such a time comes along that ANet decides tactics is too gimped, we are going to have to put up with it.

stale · Mar 12, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

So the correct answer to Shru's question is no...

Leave skill balance suggestions to Izzy and those who actually play both sides of the game.

you say this as though Izzy has EVER cared about the PvE aspect of the game?

i play both sides, and pretty much every update does something useful in PvP (far and away the most vocal bit of the playerbase) and hurts PvE (which is a larger playerbase, by orders of magnitude).

and yeah, tactics is broken - i still say (and have said before) that secondaries should be limited to half the power of a primary class - so that the stupid monk with a blocking stance gets 7-8 seconds, instead of 15-16.

and, though i do love my paragon, they really need to make the para leadership only affect para shouts - that way they can restore some of the warrior skills to their former use. granted, they'd need something beyond GftE for e-management on a para, but it's do-able.

Mr. G · Mar 12, 2008, 10:52 AM // 10:52

I always thought the Idea of "Tactics" and "warriors" didnt match at all

Then again Ive seen some pretty bad warriors

HawkofStorms · Mar 12, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by stale

you say this as though Izzy has EVER cared about the PvE aspect of the game?

i play both sides, and pretty much every update does something useful in PvP (far and away the most vocal bit of the playerbase) and hurts PvE (which is a larger playerbase, by orders of magnitude).

and yeah, tactics is broken - i still say (and have said before) that secondaries should be limited to half the power of a primary class - so that the stupid monk with a blocking stance gets 7-8 seconds, instead of 15-16.

and, though i do love my paragon, they really need to make the para leadership only affect para shouts - that way they can restore some of the warrior skills to their former use. granted, they'd need something beyond GftE for e-management on a para, but it's do-able.

Nothing really "hurts" PvE. It just requires you to change your build and think. I'm a PvE player myself mostly.
The only real "nerf" that actually legitamately affected only PvE was the nerf to mob AI to not stand in AOE anymore (becuase it by definition only effected PvE, but with AB and NPCs in GvG you could argue otherwise I suppose). Everything else effects both player bases.